E. Gentvilas: If you do not understand what the Constitution is, you will burn your fingers




– Mr V.Poderis, no matter how you are going to bed, the desire to organize the LRT's economic and financial activities and limit the powers of the LRT General Director, then you believe that it seems, except for yourself, because at least that day would vote it should be a sign that opponents are on the rise. Did you think you might not be on the road?

G. Poderys: I mean, basically, that way. Prior to the commencement of this commission, there was communication, talks with media representatives, experts and members of Seimas, who are now opposed. Everyone agreed that the situation in both LRT management and around was inadequate, and something must be done. In order for the council to take action, management should be organized, clear, clear decisions must be made, there must be no circle of friends, there must be no nepotism and so on. Someone had to take it. In the case of the LRT, the situation differs from the company in that there is no single shareholder who, as the last hope, appears if the governing bodies do not manage it. The LRT does not exist, and as a result, only the only organized force, politicians, must come and tell their opinion.

"But you know how dangerous it is when politicians come and say their opinion. If they say opinion, it is not scary yet. It's scary when they start intervening. What do you think, Mr. E. Gentvil?

E.Gentvilas: Well, I do not know. My dear colleague said that from the beginning everyone here understands what they should do, I was a white crow. I'm sorry, I do not want to quote myself, but February 9 I wrote the article after the commission was concluded a month later. "It seems that the peasants have already decided, their focus will not be Jakilaitis, not Siaurusevičius, but the management structure. It is enough to introduce additional control units, giving them special functions, and then new people in the new management chain and so on." It was it is necessary to manage the economy and to review, to overthrow things, but, do not do so, does not require a special commission of Seimas. There may be a tax inspectorate, a state attorney's office – to which you are also signing up. Was it obvious that you did what? – Prosecution function. The Prosecutor's Office is able to determine these issues professionally, the Public Procurement Office and so on. It does not require parliamentary intervention.

Your interference was covered by economic problems or real problems, which, by the way, I believe it was. In addition, you must strike the management structure to act as a ruling faction that has no right to influence governing structures until the end of the mandate, since management structures were formed in 2016, as far as Seimas could have until 2022, the term ends in 2020. You are sitting without the opportunity to take advantage of the political influence on the governance structure. That's the one who needed this studio, a special investigative commission. Only very much and beautifully, probably fair, he talks about the economic disorder within the LRT. But that did not require Seima's intervention.

– Mr.Podery, what Gentvilas says, in the same way, the entire Lithuanian journalists' union says the president said something like that, international journalists say the same thing. So you all say one thing, and you say that you are the only one closed: "No, that's not it," and for some reason you see it all differently. So, I wonder – is there a voice today – as if it is a sign that you wake up to something wrong?

G. Poderys: We will expand this disorder. We said A, let's say B. And if we all saw, and really, we all agreed that this is the case, why are not the internal structures formed by the LRT? Where is self-discipline, where is the internal audit, where to clean? Where are the incentive systems countered – where were they?

"But now this is when it comes to a new leadership and tells you," Let us do it, we will do it. "In fact, we confirm that there are mistakes, we want to clean up and manage our economic system."

E.Gentvilas: It should be noted that Seimas Culture Committee had to hear the LRT report. They have not even listened to this report because the reports can not make conclusions as they are now. Even without hearing the report, without any attempt to resolve what you are likely to say, he immediately started to set up an investigative commission. I would like to quote that it would be clear to everyone that the Constitutional Court had already spoken against the LRT governing body: "In December 2006, the Constitutional Court's judgment of December 21. It was especially emphasized that, in order to ensure the independence of the LRT from the authorities or their officials , interfering with other people in LRT activities, such an LRT management model has been established, where the LRT Council plays an extremely important role. "Now add the following link. The role of the LRT Council has been reduced, and in my opinion this is already a complaint to the Doctrine of the Constitutional Court.

– I also wanted to quote the same thing. The Constitutional Court stated. Do not you mean this decision of the Constitutional Court?

G. Poderys: If we read all these points, then the Constitutional Court in its verdict speaks about the council and the board. We can find it after the show, I'll show you.

– He talks about the Administrative Commission: "The functions and powers of the LRT Steering Committee are set up to address the issues of LRT's economic and financial affairs" to ensure the independence of the LRT from the authorities (their officials), the interference of other persons in the LRT activities "

G. Poderys: And very well. Now, as far as the Council is concerned. Our proposal that politicians should not only dedicate themselves to a council member, but gradually, every six months, depoliticizes this way. For, at the same time, members of various political groups sit in the Council of Political Institutions. This method is used everywhere, and broadcasters, European affiliates, offer this method in their own good governance. That's what we say: "Let's do this." So, as we propose, and to put this depollution order into effect in 2023.

– Mr. V. Podery, the Council is probably not the most scary one, we should speak more about the board, but we have one interlocutor, so now I want to think about this topic and talk about Ramushan Karbauskas's suggestion that we need to make changes to the Constitution to ensure LRT's independence. He talks about Article 44 of the Constitution. This article, I quote, has exactly two points: "Mass media censorship is banned: states, political parties, political and public organizations, other institutions or individuals can not monopolize mass media." We have a lawyer, academician Vytautas Nekrošius. Good evening, Mr. V.Necrosius. I would like to ask you whether it is really necessary to change the Constitution or intervene in it to ensure the independence of the national television.

V.Nekrošius: I do not have to change anything here. The attitude towards the Constitution, which in recent years has begun to assume that this is a pretty common law, which if something else is needed, can easily be changed very simply, it is a very bad thing because it indicates that people are full of cynics or people do not fully understand what is the Constitution. If they do not fully understand what the Constitution is, they should, they do not know what to do but do not sit in the House. See one offer – now you want to delete the first part 44. Another proposal is referendum. Too hard We make it easier. The third will be a proposal for something else.

Yosvydas Elinskas / 15min photos / Vytautas Nekrošius

Yosvydas Elinskas / 15min photos / Vytautas Nekrošius

The constitution is, in essence, a social agreement, according to its meaning and importance. This is the contract of the Lithuanian society about how we want our state and our society, our people to live, in accordance with the basic principles. Therefore, no standpoint on the Constitution, as an ordinary act that some people love or dislike, in most cases, can change, is completely unacceptable. There is a value we must protect a lot.

E.Gentvilas: And here I will add. As of September 10, there are already seven initiatives to change the Constitution at this Seimas session. If you do not understand what the Constitution is, you will burn your fingers and walk with your fingers, and everyone will feel.

"Mr. Pomorie, I would still like to ask you about the Constitutional Court because you appeal to some MPs and you can accept these conclusions without waiting for the Constitutional Court's conclusions. But what if the case happened so that a court verdict would be such that the commission was caused by a violation of the Constitution? Then the conclusions will be null and void. Do you have to wait?

G. Poderys: Then we will decide, we will look at what the Constitutional Court will say. Now I suggest that I will not stay out of sight. And on behalf of the LRT, in order to complete this, it seems to me, as it is unclear, that we will agree in the coming days that the Chairman of the Culture Committee will register the changes in order to clearly reduce the politicization. That the council members of politicians would not be 8, two thirds, as now, but one third.

– Now we stop this board, let's talk about the board. About the Board to be established by the Governmental Commission.

G. Poderys: It does not necessarily govern.

– Everywhere it is announced that the government commission.

G. Poderys: We did not speak in this way – here is an invention of opponents.

– It's not an opposing invention. R. Karbauskis publicly announced that he was not appointed by ministers, and not by some politicians, but by a government commission that deals with the election of such committees and individuals at such committees. Such a plate was formed in Jonava grains, and out of the five agricultural ministries, one of which is AgroGroads. Tell me how we should be calm so our committee will not be so shaped?

G. Poderys: First of all, the need for the board. We are convinced that there are absolutely unbalanced rights and responsibilities between the councils and the general director who are hostile to the hostility and are not well controlled. That is why there is a proposal, as in all companies at least to bigger or bigger companies – all have boards. Here's anachronism.

Sigismund Gedwil / Photo of 15min / Virgilijus Poderys

Sigismund Gedwil / Photo of 15min / Virgilijus Poderys

– But you explain the principle of appointment.

G. Poderys: There is anachronism in such an important institution that there is unity. It is necessary to interpret those who suggest the board to interpret those who say "No, the government is very good".

– No, far from it, nobody says. We even say we have an administrative commission that can do it.

G. Poderys: Now for the board. Independent board members must be selected from a company with good reputation without any conflict of interest, and they would do most of the board. This is global practice. Good practice.

– This is me and I say an example that is obvious. How should I believe what you say?

G. Poderys: Now you've taken one example. Will this be so? And why would that happen if there are bad examples?

– Well, that can happen, because the example is already there, it's a precedent. Mr. E. Gentvil, what do you think?

E.Gentvilas: You gave a good example. "Jonava Grain", where Agrokonkernas, a modern corporation of political power, manages a state-owned enterprise. Moreover, the state-owned enterprise has been transformed into a "chromium", which sells R.Karbauskis fertilizer. This is a perfect example. The second thing, colleague Virgil, said that it was an indefinite slow. Forgive me, we are talking about an attribute of democracy – independent public television.

G. Poderys: Okay, because we disagree, in that sense.

E.Gentvilas: How are we arguing? That, in my opinion, will never be too much time for disputes here. This is if you do not understand the functioning of democracy, or, as you say, cynic or desperate. In my opinion, cynicism and vengeance are pervading in your head. Because understanding does not seem to require a lot of intelligence and enough for R.Karbauskas. So overcome cynicism.

"I would say that this may not be controversial, we can only call it a discussion, but it is worth discussing, because then the truth is born. By the way, time is over. Thank you



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